>>> HELLO EVERYONE AND WELCOME TO AMANPOUR AND COMPANY.

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

STRIKE AND COUNTERSTRIKE BETWEEN INDIA AND PAKISTAN.

FEARS MOUNT IN ONE OF THE WORLD'S MOST VOLATILE NEIGHBORHOODS.

I GET A REPORT FROM ISLAMABAD.

>>> THERE IS NO FOOD, NO WATER, AND NO AID REACHING US.

>> NETANYAHU'S NEW AND MUCH WIDER PLAN TO DISPLACE THE POPULATION OF GAZA.

I ASK ISRAELI DEPUTY FOREIGN MINISTER, SHARON HASKELL, WHAT IS THE GOAL.

>>> CHOOSING THE NEXT POPE, AS CARDINALS BEGIN THEIR SECRET CONCLAVE.

>>> THERE IS A BIT OF A WHACK-A- MOLE AFFECT WITH GLOBAL TRADE.

>> BUSINESS REPORTER, ANNA SWANSON, SAYS A TIDAL WAVE OF CHANGE IS COMING AT AMERICAN CONSUMERS.

>>> AMANPOUR AND COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT, JIM ATWOOD, AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDICE, THE SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEYLAH AND MICKIE STRAUS, MARK J.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JONES KAF HAD TZ FUNDS.

CHARLES ROSENBLUM, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, JEFFREY KATZ, AND BETH ROGERS.

AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM EVERYONE, I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

INDIA AND PAKISTAN'S LONG SIMMERING TENSIONS BURST OUT INTO THE OPEN TODAY WHEN INDIA STRUCK THE PROVINCE AND PAKISTAN SIDE OF KASHMIR, KILLING NEARLY 30 PEOPLE.

THE PRIME MINISTER CALLED IT AN ACT OF WAR, SAYING HIS MILITARY IS NOW AUTHORIZED TO TAKE CORRESPONDING ACTION.

IT COMES ON THE HEELS OF A MILITANT ATTACK IN APRIL THAT KILLED 26 PEOPLE ON THE INDIAN SIDE OF KASHMIR.

INDIA BLAMED PAKISTAN, PAKISTAN DENIED IT.

PARTITIONED NEARLY 80 YEARS AGO.

THE TERRITORY, KASHMIR, STILL UNSETTLED.

BOTH U.S.

ALLIES AND THEY ARE BOTH NUCLEAR POWERS.

CORRESPONDENT NIC ROBERTSON HAS BEEN FOLLOWING THIS STORY CLOSELY.

RECENTLY HE TRAVELED TO THE PAKISTANI CONTROL SIDE OF KASHMIR TO FIND OUT HOW PEOPLE THERE ARE BEING AFFECTED BY THESE RISING TENSIONS.

>> Reporter: JUST AFTER MIDNIGHT, PAKISTAN'S PEACE SHATTERED.

A WAVE OF INDIAN MISSILES LIGHTING UP THE SKY, ROCKING THE NATION.

PUSHING TWO BITTER NUCLEAR ARM NEIGHBORS TO THE BRINK OF ALL- OUT WAR.

LOCAL RESIDENT SAYING FEAR AND TERROR SPREAD IN THE PEOPLE.

INDIA SAYS ITS ATTACK HIT NINE SITES AS PAKISTAN'S MILITARY MOUNTED ITS DEFENSE.

>> SO FAR I CAN CONFIRM YOU THAT FIVE INDIAN AIRCRAFTS HAVE BEEN SHOT DOWN.

ONE DRONE HAS ALSO BEEN SHOT DOWN.

>> Reporter: ACCORDING TO INDIA, THE STRIKES WERE IN RESPONSE TO LAST MONTH'S KILLING OF 26 CIVILIANS IN KASHMIR BY MILITANTS.

INDIA SAYS ISLAMABAD DENIES.

>> THESE ACTIONS WERE MEASURED, PROPORTIONATE, AND RESPONSIBLE.

THEY FOCUSED ON DISMANTLING THE TERRORIST INFRASTRUCTURE AND DISABLING TERRORISTS LIKELY TO BE SENT ACROSS INDIA.

>> Reporter: WHILE INDIA SAYS IT WAS PREEMPTING TERROR ATTACKS, THOUGH PROVIDED NO EVIDENCE OF THAT CLAIM.

AMONG THE MORE THAN TWO DOZEN KILLED IN TUESDAY NIGHT'S AIR RAID WERE CHILDREN.

MOSQUES WERE DAMAGED.

ANGERED PAKISTAN HAS ALREADY VOWED TO RESPOND.

>> PAKISTAN DESERVES THE RIGHT AND WILL RESPOND TO THIS AGGRESSION AT A TIME, PLACE, AND MEANS OF OUR OWN CHOICE.

>> Reporter: ARTILLERY SHELLING CONTINUES ACROSS THE DE FACTO BORDER IN DISPUTED KASHMIR.

INDIA WARNED PAKISTAN NOT TO TAKE IT FURTHER.

>> THE INDIAN ARMED FORCES ARE FULLY PREPARED TO RESPOND TO PAKISTANI MISSILES, IF ANY.

THAT WILL ESCALATE THE SITUATION.

>> Reporter: THE COUNTRY'S LEADER, MODI GATHERED HIS TOP OFFICIALS ON WEDNESDAY, IN WAKE OF THE STRIKE, WHICH HIT DEEPER INSIDE PAKISTAN THAN ANY INDIAN ATTACK FOR 50 YEARS.

LONG BEFORE THE NATION REQUIRED THE NUCLEAR BOMB.

>> NATE ROBINSON REPORTING THERE FROM PAKISTAN.

A VERY WORRYING SITUATION.

A NOTE THOUGH, WE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO IDENTIFY THE CLAIM THEY SHOT DOWN FIVE INDIAN AIRCRAFT.

>>> NOW TO GAZA WHERE 48 PEOPLE WERE KILLED TUESDAY INCLUDING AT LEAST SEVEN CHILDREN IN ISRAELI AIR STRIKES ON SCHOOL COMPOUNDS SHELTERING THOUSANDS OF DISPLACED PALESTINIANS.

THIS ACCORDING TO HOSPITAL OFFICIALS.

THIS ALSO JUST AS ISRAEL ANNOUNCED A NEW MILITARY OPERATION IN GAZA, WHICH ONE MINISTER HAS DESCRIBED AS A PLAN TO CONQUER THE TERRITORY.

PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU SAYS GAZA'S POPULATION WILL BE DISPLACED TO THE SOUTH.

HE SAYS IT'S TO PROTECT THEM.

DISTRIBUTION OF AID IS PLANNED FOR THERE WITH PERMANENT OCCUPATIONAL PARTS OF GAZA AS A SECURITY BUFFER ZONE.

THE PLAN CALLED OPERATION GIDEON'S CHARIOT WILL BE IMPLEMENTED AFTER PRESIDENT TRUMP'S VISIT TO THE VISIT NEXT WEEK.

PALESTINIANS IN GAZA ALREADY ENDURING A NINE-WEEK LONG BLOCKADE OF ALL HUMANITARIAN AID.

IT IS THE LONGEST SIEGE EVER ON THE ENCLAVE.

HUMANITARIAN ORGANIZATIONS ARE WARNING THAT MASS STARVATION IS IMMINENT.

LISTEN TO THIS WOMAN IN GAZA CITY.

>> THERE'S NO FOOD, NO WATER, AND NO AID REACHING US.

WHAT I'M DOING NOW IS TRYING TO SEPARATE RICE FROM BULGER AND STONES.

THERE'S NO FOOD, NO WATER, NOTHING REACHES US.

>> ISRAEL ACCUSES HAMAS OF STEALING AID, WHICH HAMAS DENIES.

IT SAYS IT EXECUTED PALESTINIANS FOR ALLEGED LOOTING.

SHARREN HASKEL IS THE DEPPLY FOREIGN MINISTER, JOINING US FROM JERUSALEM.

DEPUTY FOREIGN HASKEL, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

>> HELL, CHRISTIANE.

>> THERE IS A LOT TO UNCOVER HERE BECAUSE WE'VE GOT THE ORDERS FROM YOUR GOVERNMENT, WE'VE GOT THE HUMANITARIAN CRISIS.

LET'S FIRST START WITH THE HUMANITARIAN CRISIS.

SINCE THE SECOND OF MARCH, ISRAEL HAS PREVENTED ALL HUMANITARIAN SUPPLIES FROM ENTERING.

NOT ONE PIECE OF BREAD, NOT A GLASS OF WATER, NOT A SINGLE BIT OF MEDICINE.

AS I SAID, IT'S THE LONGEST SIEGE.

TWO MILLION PALESTINIANS IN GAZA, NEARLY HALF OF THEM CHILDREN, ARE NOW SURVIVING ON A SINGLE MEAL EVERY TWO OR THREE DAYS.

THAT'S ACCORDING TO THE U.N. WHY IS ISRAEL DOING THIS?

IT GOES AGAINST ALL ITS AGREEMENTS WITH U.S., WITH THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY, EVERYTHING.

>> SO THE FIRST THING I HAVE TO MENTION IS THEY'RE MONITORING CLOSELY AND ADEQUATELY ON THE SITUATION IN GAZA.

IT IS REPORTING BACK.

THE SITUATION IN GAZA IS VERY FAR FROM WHAT THE REPORTS ARE ACTUALLY SAYING.

THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME, YOU KNOW.

A YEAR AGO, IT WAS THE SAME REPORTS, THE SAME THING, TALKING ABOUT STARVATION, AND IT PROVED TO BE A LIE.

THIS IS THE SAME SITUATION RIGHT NOW.

THE FACT IS DURING 42 DAYS OF CEASE-FIRE, 25,000 TRUCKS ENTERED GAZA.

YOU KNOW WHO PROFITED FROM THAT?

HAMAS.

THEY --THEY TOOK AN AMOUNT OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS AND CLAIMED IT THROUGH THAT AID.

THEY SOLD THAT AID, THEY STOLE IT, AS WELL AS THEY PROFITED FROM IT.

YOU KNOW WHAT THEY DID WITH THE MONEY THEY PROFIT FROM AID?

THEY REARMED, THEY RECRUIT NEW TERRORISTS.

THIS IS THE FIRST TIME WHERE HAMAS WAS CAPABLE OF PAYING 100% OF THE SALARIES TO ITS TERRORISTS.

SO I WANT TO TAKE YOU BACK TO WHAT BIDEN SAID.

HE SAID THAT IF AID WILL ENTER HAMAS' HANDS, IF IT WILL REACH HAMAS, THE AID WILL BE STOPPED.

THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING NOW.

WE'RE LOOKING INTO A NEW OPERATION THAT WILL PROVIDE AID, BUT IT WILL NOT BE GIVEN TO A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION.

>> DEPUTY FOREIGN MINISTER.

ARE YOU DENYING PEOPLE HAVE DIED OF STARVATION FROM GAZA?

ARE YOU DENYING THAT IT IS IMMINENT NOW?

THIS IS CATEGORIZED AND REPORTED BY INTERNATIONAL DOCTORS, INTERNATIONAL HUMANITARIANS.

ARE YOU DENYING THAT SERIOUSLY?

>> THESE ARE COMPLETE LIES.

AND I'LL TELL YOU WHAT, WE HEARD A YEAR AGO, YOU HEARD ABOUT THE STARVATION, AND YOU SAW IT WAS A LIE.

>> NO, BUT WE DIDN'T.

THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING YOU.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

AND I WANT TO SAY THAT.

LOOK, I KNOW THERE'S A LOT OF REPORTERS WHO PREFER THEIR INFORMATION AND THEIR DATA COMING FROM A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION LIKE HAMAS, WHO IS USING IT AS A TOOL TO TRY AND STOP US FROM, YOU KNOW, FROM FIGHTING THIS TERRORIST ORGANIZATION.

BUT THE FACT IS ALMOST ALL OF THESE REPORTS ARE BASED ON THE LIES OF A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION.

AND WHEN WE, AS A DEMOCRATIC STATE, WITH CHECKS AND BALANCES AND JUDICIAL SYSTEM, GIVE THE INFORMATION AND GIVE DATA THROUGH EXPERT, THROUGH OUR LEGAL SYSTEMS, THEN YOU TAKE IT WITH A GRAIN OF SALT.

I THINK YOU SHOULD REALLY TAKE ANY INFORMATION THAT COMES FROM GAZA THROUGH HAMAS, WITH NOT A GRAIN OF SALT, BUT WITH A SHOVEL OF SALT.

>> OKAY, SO I UNDERSTAND YOU'RE PUTTING THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT.

YOU KNOW THIS STANDS IN TOTAL CONTRAST.

I MEAN, 360, 180-DEGREE CONTRAST WITH WHAT THE REST OF THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY IS SEEING, HAS PROVEN WITH ITS OWN EYES, AND HAS URGED YOU, URGED YOU ON PAYING ALL SORTS OF ISSUES TO ALLOW FOOD, MEDICINE, AND WATER INTO PEOPLE.

I WANT TO KNOW HOW DO YOU ANSWER, FOR INSTANCE, A HUMANITARIAN ORGANIZATION, BASICALLY THE AMERICAN NEAREST REFUGEE AID SAYS.

ISRAEL'S BLOCKADE AND THE DELIBERATE DELAYS --NO LISTEN FOR A SECOND.

YOU HAD YOUR SPEECH.

THE DELIBERATE DELAYS, DENIALS, AND EXCESSIVE SECURITY PROCEDURES THAT SURROUND IT IS NOT JUST A FAILURE OF LOGISTICS.

IT'S AN ENGINEERED SYSTEM OF DEPRIVATION.

YOU HAVE THEM TELLING YOU TO LET AID IN.

I SIMPLY DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT IT GAINS YOU TO ALLOW WOMEN AND CHILDREN TO STARVE.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND.

EVEN IN WAR.

>> SO A COUPLE OF THINGS THOUGH.

THE FIRST THING, IT'S A LIE, OKAY.

THIS IS NOT ISRAEL'S GOALS AND THIS IS NOT WHAT ISRAEL IS DOING.

IT'S FAR FROM THE TRUTH.

THE TRUTH IS THERE IS NO SHORTAGE OF WATER AT ALL.

WHEN WE'RE MONITORING OUT CLOSELY ON THE FOOD SUPPLIES.

I HAVE TO TELL YOU WITH THE TESTIMONIALS, SO IF THEY CAME BACK, WHO WAS IN THOSE WAREHOUSE IN THOSE TUNNELS, IN THOSE SHELTERS, BASES OF HAMAS.

HER TESTIMONY WAS THAT THEY ARE STOCKPILING AID, OKAY.

NOW LET ME TELL YOU THIS.

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT WE WERE WORKING ON RIGHT NOW.

WE ARE WORKING ON A HUMANITARIAN PLAN THAT WILL DISTRIBUTE HUMANITARIAN AID TO THE PEOPLE, NOT TO A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION.

AND I THINK THAT'S REALLY WHAT YOU SHOULD WANT AS WELL BECAUSE IF HAMAS IS EXPANDING ITS OPERATIONS, ARMING ITSELF AGAIN, RECRUITING NEW TERRORISTS THROUGH THAT AID THAT'S BEING DISTRIBUTED, THAT'S ACTUALLY PROLONGING THE WAR.

IF WE ARE ABLE TO TRIBUTE HUMANITARIAN AID TO THE PEOPLE, AND DISCONNECT HAMAS FROM IT, WE WILL BE ABLE TO SHORTEN OUR OPERATION AND OUR FIGHT AGAINST HAMAS.

SO I THINK ANY KIND OF LOGIC, YOU SHOULD BE SUPPORTING.

>> LET'S ASK YOU ABOUT THE LOGIC AND THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT NOW.

YOUR GOVERNMENT HAS TAKEN A VERY BIG AND EXPANSIVE NEW STEP.

FIRST OF ALL, ON EXPANDING THE WAR AS SOME OF YOUR MINISTERS HAVE SAID TO CONQUER ALL OF GAZA.

SOME OF THEM HAVE SAID, YOU KNOW, EVENTUALLY DISPLACE ALL THE PALESTINIANS.

WHAT DO YOU EXPECT TO CHANGE AFTER 18 MONTHS OF TRYING TO DO THE VERY SAME?

YOU ARE THE MOST POWERFUL MILITARY IN THE REGION, AND YOU HAVE AN ENCLAVE WITH THE BEST RUDIMENTARY, BUT YES, LETHAL WEAPON AGAINST YOU.

WHAT DO YOU EXPECT TO CHANGE IN A FURTHER EXPANSION OF THIS WAR, THAT YOU HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO ACHIEVE IN 18 MONTHS?

I MEAN I JUST WANT TO KNOW MILITARILY.

>> LOOK, I WANT TO PUT EVERYTHING HERE ON THE TABLE, OKAY.

THE FACT IS ISRAEL NEVER WANTED THIS WAR.

>> I JUST WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU EXPECT TO CHANGE.

I KNOW WHAT HAPPENS.

>> THIS WAR WAS FORCED.

OUR GOAL, WE HAVE TWO GOALS ONLY.

FIRST ONE IS TO BRING BACK OUR FAMILY MEMBERS WHO ARE BEING HELD IN THE DUNGEONS OF TORTURE OF A DEATH COLT.

I THINK EVERY NATION WOULD DO ANYTHING TO BRING THEM BACK HOME.

THE OTHER ONE IS TO BRING BACK OUR SAFETY AND SECURITY TO OUR COUNTRY, ELIMINATE THE TERRORIST ORGANIZATION.

I MEAN, THEY VOUCH YOU HAVE TO MURDER AND OBLITERATE OUR CHILDREN.

MY CHILDREN OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

SO WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO DISMANTLE THIS VIOLENCE TERRORIST DEATH CALL.

>> I FULLY UNDERSTAND.

I FULLY UNDERSTAND.

I WANT TO ASK YOU THIS BECAUSE IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

LAST WEEK --PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU -- >> I REALLY WANT TO ANSWER THAT.

>> OKAY, I'LL LET YOU, BUT YOU SAID WE NEED TO GET OUR HOSTAGES BACK.

YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

BUT YOUR PRIME MINISTER LAST WEEK SAID VICTORY OVER HAMAS, NOT THE RETURN OF THE HOSTAGES WAS THE SUPREME OBJECTIVE OF THE WAR.

ONE OF YOUR MINISTERS, THE HOSTAGES, THEY'RE NOT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING.

PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME -- >> THIS IS NOT TRUE.

>> THAT'S WHAT THEY SAID.

>> THAT IS THE OBJECTIVE OF THE WAR.

ONE OF THEM IS TO ELIMINATE HAMAS AND THE OTHER ONE IS TO BRING BACK OUR HOSTAGES.

>> WHICH IS THE MOST IMPORTANT?

>> THAT ONLY MILITARY PRESSURE BROUGHT THE LAST TWO DEALS.

HAMAS HAS REFUSED TO NEGOTIATE.

THE FACT IS AND THE ADMINISTRATION AND YOUR GOVERNMENT WILL TELL YOU THAT, THAT'S TIME AFTER TIME.

INCLUDING NOW, NOT ONE, TWO, BUT A FEW OTHERS TO TRY TO EXTEND THE CEASE-FIRE, BUT HAMAS REFUSED.

SO WHAT OTHER OPTION DO WE HAVE BESIDES GOING AND ACTUALLY FINISHING THE WAR?

ELIMINATE HAMAS AND BRINGING BACK OUR HOSTAGES OURSELVES.

IF YOU HAVE ANY OTHER PROPOSITION, I'M SURE WE WILL BE WILLING TO HEAR, BUT THIS IS OUR REALITY.

WHEN WE ARE PUTTING MILITARY PRESSURE, THAT'S THE ONLY REASON WHY THE LAST TWO CEASE- FIRE DEALS WERE SIGNED AND BROUGHT OUR PEOPLE ALIVE.

>> OKAY.

>> SO WHEN YOU UNDERSTAND THE REALITY AND WHO WE ARE FACING, YOU KNOW, THE FACT THAT WE WENT INTO SMALL OPERATIONS, SO WE HAD A PRESENCE.

EVERY TIME THERE WAS A UNIQUE THING THAT WENT THERE OR AN OPERATION THERE, WE ARE GOING NOW, YES, WITH ALL OF OUR FORCES IN TWO GOALS.

ELIMINATING HAMAS AND BRINGING BACK OUR HOSTAGES.

WITHIN A FEW WEEKS, WE'LL BE ABLE TO SIGN ANOTHER CEASE- FIRE, WHICH WILL BRING BACK OUR FAMILY MEMBERS BACK HOME, OUR BROTHERS, AND OUR COUSINS, AND OUR GRANDPARENTS, BACK TO THE LOVING ARMS OF THEIR FAMILY.

I THINK YOU SHOULD BE HAPPY WITH THAT AS WELL.

>> I WANT TO ASK YOU SOMETHING.

>> ISRAELIS WILL BE LIBERATED FROM HAMAS, BUT ALSO THE PALESTINIANS.

HAMAS IS ACTUALLY HOLDING HOSTAGE, ALSO THE ENTIRE GAZAN POPULATION.

THEY'RE ABUSING THEM AND TORTURING THEM.

>> I WANT TO ASK YOU A QUESTION BECAUSE THIS IS SUPER IMPORTANT.

AS YOU KNOW, THERE'S BEEN A HUGE AMOUNT OF CONTROVERSY OVER WHAT YOU JUST STATED.

THAT THEY VIOLATED THE SECOND CEASE-FIRE.

YOU KNOW THERE'S PLENTY OF REPORTS, INCLUDING FROM WITHIN YOUR OWN NATIONAL SECURITY ESTABLISHMENT.

THAT IN FACT, THERE WERE REPORTS THAT ISRAEL WAS NOT INTERESTED IN IMPLEMENTING STAGE II OF THE CEASE-FIRE BECAUSE THAT CALLED FOR THE COMPLETE WITHDRAWAL OF THE IDF.

THE PLAN THAT YOU MENTIONED WAS ACTUALLY PROPOSED BY ISRAEL THEMSELVES.

THEY WOULD HAVE LIKED TO HAVE HAD A 50-DAY EXTENSION AS YOU MENTIONED.

SO MY QUESTION IS YOU KNOW BOTH TIMES THERE WERE HOSTAGE RELEASES CAME DURING THE NEGOTIATED PHASE.

IT WAS IN NEGOTIATION.

YOU GAVE PRISONERS, THEY GAVE HOSTAGES.

IT'S THE ONLY TIME.

>> OUR AGREEMENT WITH THE CEASE- FIRE ENDED ON THE FIRST OF MARCH.

WE CONTINUED FOR THREE MORE WEEKS IN GOOD FAITH.

PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU CAME TO WASHINGTON AND DISCUSSED DONALD TRUMP, IN ORDER TO TRY TO DISCUSS AND PROMOTE ANOTHER EXTENSION OF THE CEASE-FIRE, AND TO PROMOTE STAGE TWO.

BUT HAMAS WAS NOT DEALING WITH GOOD FAITH.

HAMAS REFUSED THE DEALS THAT COULD HAVE EXTENDED THAT.

SO THE RESPONSIBILITY FROM NOT ACCEPTING THAT RELIES ON HAMAS.

I WANT TO MENTION TO YOU ALSO.

YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE HUMANITARIAN CEASE-FIRE AND THAT ISSUE.

MY SHIRT IS A GOLDING THAT WAS MURDERED AND ABDUCTED INTO GAZA DURING A HUMANITARIAN CEASE- FIRE BY HAMAS.

THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT THE RULES OF LAW -- >> I'M SORRY, WHEN WAS THAT?

>> THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT HUMANITARIAN.

THAT WAS 11 YEARS AGO WHEN HADDAD WAS MURDERED AND ABDUCTED DURING A HUMANITARIAN CEASE-FIRE.

SO UNFORTUNATELY WE'RE NOT DEALING WITH, YOU KNOW, A NORMAL GOVERNMENT OR SOMEONE WHO IS SEEKING A BETTER FUTURE FOR THEIR PEOPLE.

THIS IS A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION, A DEATH CULT THAT CANNOT BE TRUSTED THAT SWORE TO THE DURATION OF MY CHILDREN, OF MY COMMUNITY.

SO YOU'RE TALKING -- >> AGAIN.

>> IF THERE IS A NORMAL GOVERNMENT THAT IS NOT HOLDING HOSTAGE.

THEY'RE PEOPLE AS WELL, WHERE THEY ARE NOT BUTCHERING THEIR OWN CITIZENS, THEIR OWN PEOPLE ON THE STREETS, STEALING THEIR AID.

>> AGAIN, DEPUTY FOREIGN MINISTER, DEPUTY FOREIGN MINISTER, AGAIN, I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT -- >> CHRISTIANE -- >> YEAH?

>> I WILL JUST SAY PLEASE, ONE LAST THING.

HERE I DECLARE IN FRONT OF YOU.

THIS WAR CAN END TOMORROW.

IT CAN END TOMORROW IF THEY GIVE US BACK OUR HOSTAGES AND THEY DISARM THEMSELVES.

THAT'S IT.

>> SO GIVEN YOU SAY THAT, I WANT TO KNOW HOW THIS WAR IS GOING TO END.

BECAUSE WHAT WE'RE SEEING FROM YOUR OWN GOVERNMENT, WHICH SAYS AFTER THE TRUMP VISIT, THEY WILL START GIDEON'S CHARIOT, AND PUSH ALL THE GAZANS INTO ABOUT A THIRD OR A QUARTER OF THE LAND.

AND THEN CREATE, I BELIEVE THIS IS HAPPENING BECAUSE IT'S BEEN SEEN BY SATELLITE IMAGERY, SORT OF A 20-ACRE HUMANITARIAN ZONE TO FEED THE POPULATION OR SOMEHOW DO IT.

HOW DOES THIS END?

IS IT --BECAUSE THE LAST TIME YOU ALL TRIED TO DO HUMANITARIAN DELIVERIES, IT TURNED INTO A FIASCO.

IT WAS THE FLOWER MASSACRE.

HOW DO YOU PLAN TO DO THIS?

>> SO I HAVE TO SAY FIRST OF ALL, HUMANITARIAN PLAN BY THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT WAS NEVER PLANNED OR TESTED IN THE FIELD BEFORE.

BUT IT'S REALLY STRANGE BECAUSE ON THE ONE HAND, YOU'RE TELLING ME BRING IT IN.

ON THE OTHER HAND WHEN ISRAEL IS HAVING A PLAN TO BRING HUMANITARIAN AID IN, YOU'RE TELLING ME NO.

THAT'S NOT GOOD.

>> NO, NO, I'M ASKING YOU HOW.

>> TO BRING AID THROUGH THE TERRORIST ORGANIZATION.

WE ARE STILL WORKING ON THE DETAILS, OKAY.

AND I KNOW THERE IS A BRIEFING LATER ON AT THE UNITED NATIONS AS WELL, AND WE ARE WORKING ON ALL THE DETAILS AS WELL.

BUT THE FACT IS WE ARE TRYING TO FIND A WAY THAT REAL NEEDS FOR HUMANITARIAN AID WILL REACH THE PEOPLE, THE PEOPLE IN GAZA, NOT THE TERRORIST ORGANIZATION, BUT THE PEOPLE.

THAT IS OUR GOAL.

>> AS YOU KNOW, THEY WERE IN TALKS --HE WAS NOT IN CHARGE IN DOING NEGOTIATIONS WITH HAMAS.

IT WAS THROUGH THE U.N. AND HUMANITARIANS.

THEY WERE DELIVERING THE AID.

I GET WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO SAY.

I WANT TO KNOW WHETHER GAZA WILL BE PERMANENTLY OCCUPIED BECAUSE THAT'S ANOTHER THING THAT IS BEING FLOATED.

JUST TELL ME ABOUT THAT.

>> LOOK, LOOK, YOU'RE TALKING TO ME ABOUT AN EXTREME VIEW, AND THERE ARE TWO EXTREME VIEWS, OKAY, BUT THAT'S NOT THE POSITION OF OUR GOVERNMENT AT ALL.

>> OKAY.

>> WE CAN TALK ABOUT THOSE TWO EXTREMES.

ON THE ONE HAND, PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY TALKING ABOUT REWARDING THE TERRORIST ORGANIZATION WITH THE STATE.

AND THE OTHER EXTREME IS ABOUT BRINGING BACK SOME TOWNS INTO GAZA.

BUT MOST OF THE GENERAL PUBLIC AND THE STATE OF ISRAELS APPROACH IS ONLY TO ELIMINATE THE TERRORIST ORGANIZATION, HAMAS, AND BRING BACK THE HOSTAGES.

WE'RE TRYING DURING A VERY DIFFICULT URBAN WAR, WHICH WE DID NOT WANT, AND WE DID EVERYTHING IN AN ATTEMPT TO PREVENT THAT, INCLUDING GIVING.

BEFORE WE WENT IN THREE WEEKS.

THREE WEEKS FOR HAMAS AFTER OCTOBER 7, TO DISARM THEMSELVES AND BRING BACK 251 HOSTAGES, SO THERE WON'T BE A WAR, AND THEY REFUSE.

>> OKAY, LET ME ASK YOU ONE MORE QUESTION.

>> IT'S THE SITUATION.

WE ARE WORKING WITH OUR AMERICAN FRIENDS TO TRY AND FIND A SOLUTION TO THE PEOPLE OF GAZA, WHO HAVE SUFFERED UNDER THE HANDS OF HAMAS FOR TOO LONG.

>> THERE IS NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT.

THERE IS NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT.

SO LET ME ASK YOU -- >> IT'S THE PALESTINIANS AS WELL.

>> HAMAS, YES.

SO YOU -- YOU USED TO BE IN A PART -- WELL, NEW HOPE.

I'M JUST FASCINATED BY THIS TWEET BECAUSE FOLLOWING THE GOVERNMENT'S ATTEMPT TO RESHAPE THE JUDICIARY.

YOU TWEETED LAST AUGUST THAT'S, YOU KNOW, LESS THAN A YEAR AGO.

YOU SAID THOSE WHO WANT TO BURN THE COUNTRY, YOU HAVE DESTROYED SECURITY, YOU HAVE ROBBED THE ECONOMY.

IF YOU WERE LOOKING TO BRING A MILLION PEOPLE OUT DURING THE WAR, START NOW, IT WILL BE THERE.

IRRESPONSIBLE BAR BURNERS WHO ARE NOT INTERESTED IN THE STATE OF ISRAEL.

ONE MONTH LATER, YOU JOINED THAT VERY GOVERNMENT.

SO IT'S A PRETTY BIG SHIFT IF I'M READING IT RIGHT, AND IT WAS TRANSLATED RIGHT.

I WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU WOULD SAY TO YOUR PRIME MINISTER.

WOULD YOU SAY BRINGING BACK THE HOSTAGES IS MORE IMPORTANT AS A FIRST GOAL THAN SO-CALLED DEFEATING HAMAS, WHICH YOU HAVE NOT DONE IN 18 MONTHS?

>> FIRST OF ALL, THAT SENTENCE WAS NOT TRANSLATED PROPERLY.

>> ALL RIGHT, I'LL GIVE YOU THAT.

>> IF YOU WANT TO TALK TO ME ABOUT THE JUDICIAL REFORM HERE IN ISRAEL, WE COULD GO IN.

>> NO, I JUST LOVE THE TWEET.

>> IT'S THE DEBATE ABOUT THE JUDICIAL, ABOUT OUR JUDICIAL SYSTEM IN ISRAEL, THE DISCUSSION THAT IT IS BEING CONDUCTED, NOT JUST IN ISRAEL, BUT IN THE UNITED STATES AS WELL.

AND MANY COUNTRIES DURING THESE TIMES AS WELL.

THAT'S CHECKS AND BALANCES.

BUT THE FACT IS ISRAEL HAS A ROBUST JUDICIAL SYSTEM.

>> OKAY, IT DOES, YES.

>> AND NOT AFRAID TO JUDGE PRIME MINISTERS AND PRESIDENTS.

THAT SHOULD BE A TEST OF DEMOCRACY, OKAY, TRANSPARENCY, AND CHECKS AND BALANCES WITH OUR GOVERNMENT AS WELL.

>> OKAY, DEPUTY PRIME FOREIGN MINISTER -- >> I --I --I CRITICIZE AS WELL.

I CRITICIZE BEFORE WHEN I WAS IN THE OPPOSITION PRIOR TO THAT.

BUT 7th OF OCTOBER CHANGED.

IT WASN'T ABOUT HOW WE WANT TO SHAPE THE STATE OF ISRAEL.

IT WAS WHETHER ISRAEL WILL ACTUALLY EXIST.

THAT SHOOK US, ALL ISRAELIS, INTO A PLACE WHERE WE UNDERSTOOD, WE HAVE TO JOIN FORCES TOGETHER TO DEFEAT AN ENEMY THAT'S OUT TO COMPLETELY ANNIHILATE -- >> I'M STILL TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW YOU'LL DO THAT USING THE SAME TACTICS AFTER 18 MONTHS.

BUT DEPUTY FOREIGN MINISTER, I'M TRYING TO GET ANSWERS OUT OF YOU, AND YOU'VE BEEN GENEROUS WITH YOUR TIME.

I HAVE TO MOVE ON NOW.

I'LL HAVE YOU BACK IF YOU WILL COME BACK.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH, INDEED.

I APPRECIATE IT.

>> I'LL BE VERY HAPPY TO COME BACK.

>> INCLUDING TO ASK YOU AND I MEAN IT HAD SINCERELY BECAUSE OUR COLLEAGUES ARE INVOLVED IN THIS.

TO ALLOW US, INTERNATIONAL JOURNALISTS, TO GO IN AND VERIFY WHAT YOU'VE TOLD ME ON THIS PROGRAM TODAY.

YOU SAY HOW CAN YOU BELIEVE OTHER PEOPLE?

I WANT TO BELIEVE MY OWN EYES.

SO ALLOW US IN, AND WE'LL DO -- WE'LL CONTINUE.

>> SO I'LL BE VERY HAPPY TO PROVIDE YOU WITH INFORMATION AND ACCURATE DATA THROUGH OUR AUTHORITIES AS WELL.

EVEN TO GIVE YOU MY PERSONAL NUMBER.

>> I APPRECIATE THAT.

>> TO FACILITATE ALL OF THIS.

>> AND A PERSONAL ROUTE INTO GAZA.

I WOULD APPRECIATE THAT.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>>> TODAY, THE CONCLAVE BEGINS AT THE VATICAN.

THE SECRET AND ANCIENT PROCESS TO CHOOSE A NEW POPE.

THE FIRST WAS HELD IN 1276, CARDINALS FROM AROUND THE WORLD CAME TO DECIDE WHO WILL LEAD THE WORLD'S 1.

4 BILLION CATHOLICS AFTER THE DEATH OF POPE FRANCIS.

IT ALL HAPPENS UNDER MICHELANGELO'S EPIC STORY OF GOD, WHICH IS PAINTED ON THE SISTINE CHAPEL'S CEILING.

THAT IS OUT NOW, THE SISTINE CHAPEL, WITH VOTING BOOTHS.

WI-FI AND SMARTPHONES ARE STRICTLY PROHIBITED.

DECISION WILL HAVE ENORMOUS IMPLICATIONS FOR THE DIRECTION OF THE CHURCH.

CATHOLICS ARE ALSO GATHERING OUTSIDE THE VATICAN.

BEN WEDEMAN SPOKE TO SOME OF THEM.

>> IN TERMS OF WHO MIGHT BE THE NEXT POPE, WHAT ARE THE QUALITIES YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE IN THAT INDIVIDUAL?

>> SOMEONE THAT'S VERY MUCH LIKE FRANCIS WAS.

HUMBLE.

>> HONESTY.

CARE FOR EVERYBODY AROUND THE WORLD.

>> ON HIS DEATH BED, POPE FRANCIS LEFT A MAJOR ISSUE FOR HIS SUCCESSOR TO TAKE UP AND QUICKLY.

THAT IS THE ROLE OF WOMEN IN THE CHURCH.

IN 2021, SISTER NATALIE WAS APPOINTED BY FRANCIS AS AN UNDERSECRETARY OF THE SENATOR BISHOPS.

THE FIRST WOMAN TO HAVE THE RIGHT TO VOTE IN THAT BODY.

SHE JOINED THE PROGRAM FROM ROME, ALONGSIDE AUTHOR AND STEVEN MILLIES, JUST BEFORE BLACK SMOKE APPEARED AT THE VATICAN.

LET ME TURN TO YOU FIRST, STEVEN.

YOU'RE RIGHT HERE.

WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING ON RIGHT NOW?

DO YOU THINK WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A WHITE SMOKE?

WE'RE GOING TO HAVE SOME SMOKE?

IS THERE ANY PRECEDENT FOR IMMEDIATE WHITE SMOKE?

>> IT WOULD BE QUITE UNPRECEDENTED, A LITTLE SURPRISING, BUT IT WOULD BE A SHORTER CONCLAVE THAN MANY PEOPLE THINK IT WILL BE.

I DO.

I THINK POPE FRANCIS WAS TRUE TO BRING THE CARDINALS AND MANY BISHOPS TOGETHER FOR THE SENATE TWICE, ONCE IN 2023, ONCE IN 2024.

A THIRD OF THE QUARTERS WHO WERE VOTING WERE PRESENT AT THE MEETING, WHICH IS DIFFICULT TO IMAGINE SOME OF THESE CONVERSATIONS DIDN'T GET UNDERWAY.

>> ANYTHING IN THE PRECONCLAVE TALKS THAT ARE COMING OUT OF ROME.

DOES IT CHANGE YOUR MIND AT ALL?

IS THERE ANY MOVEMENT TOWARDS TRADITIONALISM?

>> MY OWN FEELING, THE TRADITIONAL VOICE, AS WE SOMETIMES CALL IT, IS MORE NUMEROUS THAN OTHERS.

MOST OF WHOM WERE APPOINTED BY POPE FRANCIS.

QUITE A LOT OF COMMITMENT TO CONTINUING HIS PROGRAM, HIS PROGRAM OF EMBRACING THE WORLD.

>> NATALIE, YOU HAVE THIS INCREDIBLE POSITION.

I KNOW YOU WANT TO SEE, AND YOU DON'T THINK POPE FRANCIS WENT FAR ENOUGH IN TERMS OF EMPOWERING WOMEN IN POSITIONS OF AUTHORITY IN THE CHURCH.

DESCRIBE FOR ME FIRST THE SING SINGULARITY OF THE ROLE.

>> GOOD EVENING.

IT WAS POPE FRANCIS, AND TO GIVE A SIGN TO ALL WOMEN AND TO GUIDE THE CHURCH WITH MEN AND WOMEN WALKING TOGETHER.

THE GOOD NEWS IS THAT AT THE END, THERE WERE 54 WOMEN WITH VOTING RIGHTS.

BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS THROUGH THIS PROCESS, OPENED BY POPE FRANCIS, WOMEN HAVE BEEN LISTENED TO, THEY'VE BEEN PROTECTED.

YOU KNOW, POPE FRANCIS WANTS A CHURCH READY FOR ALL, FOR EVERYONE.

EVERYBODY IS THERE TO WAIT FOR THE SMOKE.

YOU HAVE SUCH A GOOD CROWD WITH YOUNG AND WOMEN, OLD RUBBISH WISH.

POPE FRANCIS WANTED, PEOPLE OF GOD.

AND I WOULD SAY WE WILL CONTINUE LIKE THIS BECAUSE IT IS TO BE IN UNITY, AND TO FIND WAYS TO BRING DIVERSITY.

THAT IS OUR SITUATION.

BUT TO BE ONE HUMAN FAMILY.

>> LET ME ASK YOU, STEVEN THEN.

I MEAN NATALIE IS A WOMAN, I'M A WOMAN, THERE ARE MANY WOMEN IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WHO ARE REALLY INTERESTED IN WOMEN HAVING AT LEAST SOME PARODY.

WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE SIGNIFICANCE ON HIS DEATH BED, GIVING US AN ORDER OR A SUGGESTION THAT ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS THEY PICK UP, THE NEW POPE, IS THE IDEA OF WOMEN DEACONS?

>> WELL, I CERTAINLY WOULD SAY FIRST ANY NEW POPE CAN DO ANYTHING HE LIKES.

BUT I DO THINK WHAT YOU'RE HEARING THERE IS POPE FRANCIS' FIRM COMMITMENT TO WHAT MY SISTER, NATALIE, WAS TALKING ABOUT A MOMENT AGO, MAKING SURE THERE IS A CHURCH FOR EVERY BAPTIZED PERSON WHO IS IN IT, IN A CHURCH THAT IS ALSO FOR THE WORLD.

HIS COMMITMENT TO THAT, I THINK, WAS TOTAL AND IT WAS CONSTANT.

>> NATALIE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE HEARING.

YOU'RE ON THE GROUND IN ROME, AND EVERY TWO SECONDS PEOPLE ARE LIKE, YOU KNOW, DROPPING LITTLE BITS OF GOSSIP FROM CARDINALS AND THINGS.

THAT'S OBVIOUSLY ENDED NOW THAT THEY'RE IN THE SISTINE CHAPEL.

POPE FRANCIS ALSO STEPPED OUT BY BEING A REAL CHAMPION FOR OUR ENVIRONMENT, FOR THE REAL DISPOSSESSED FOR THE MIGRANTS, FOR MANY OF THE POOREST OF THE POOR.

DO YOU THINK THAT WILL STICK?

DO YOU THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT HAS TAKEN HOLD, NOT JUST AMONGST CATHOLIC PEOPLE, BUT IN THE CATHOLIC POWER STRUCTURE?

>> Reporter: I THINK SO BECAUSE YOU KNOW, POPE FRANCIS, ALL THE PEOPLE WHO CAME, AND THEY CONTINUE TO COME EVERY DAY TO PAY THEIR RESPECT.

YOU HAVE SUCH AN INCREDIBLE DIVERSITY OF -- OR MOST ALL THE POLITICAL LEADERS.

SO BECAUSE WE ALL HAVE A DEEP DESIRE TO HAVE A WAY TO BE TOGETHER ON THIS EARTH TO CARE FOR OURS TO GIVE THEM A PLACE, A SPACE FOR EVERYBODY.

EVERYBODY HERE, I HAVE MET FROM THE PEOPLE IN THE STREETS, FROM ALL WALK OF LIFE.

THEY SAY WE MUST CONTINUE THIS LEGACY THAT POPE FRANCIS IS OPEN AND IT IS UNFOLDED.

AND SO WE HOPE THAT THE SHERIFF WILL CONTINUE TO BE CLOSE TO THIS HUMANITY BECAUSE WE ARE IN THE BROKEN WORLD WITH SO MANY CONFLICTS AND THE CHURCH IS READY TO HELP BUILD THIS UNITY AND TO LIVE TOGETHER TO FIND WAYS FOR PEACE, FOR EACH ONE TO HAVE A WAY.

SO IT WILL CONTINUE BECAUSE THAT'S A BIG VOCATION OF THE CHURCH.

TO BE WITH THE PEOPLE.

TO SERVE THE PEOPLE, AND TO TESTIMONIES OR THE LOVE OF GOD THAT LIFE IS STRONGER THAN THIS.

>> STEVEN.

THERE IS AN ONGOING SHADOW OBVIOUSLY OVER THE CATHOLIC CHURCH LIKE A LOT OF INSTITUTIONS, BUT MOST CERTAINLY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.

THAT'S THE SEXUAL ABUSE AND THE LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY AND MOVING.

NOW, YOU KNOW THIS GROUP, SNAP, THE SURVIVORS NETWORK OF THOSE ABUSED BY PRIESTS, WARNS ANY NEW POPE IS LIKELY TO HAVE COVERED UP SEX CRIMES.

I SEE YOU NODDING.

S.N.A.P.

IS COMPILING A LIST OF CARDINALS THAT ARE ACCUSED OF HELPING PRIESTS EVADE JUSTICE.

SO A CARDINAL, BE IT LIBERAL OR CONSERVATIVE, SHOULD THEY BE DISQUALIFIED BY VIRTUE OF HAVING COVERED UP?

I MEAN HOW IS THIS GOING TO WORK?

>> I DON'T THINK I CAN SPEAK TO THE QUESTION OF WHETHER THEY CAN BE DISQUALIFIED.

I CAN SAY CERTAINLY A WHOLE GENERATION, MAYBE MORE THAN ONE GENERATION, OF CATHOLIC BISHOPS PARTICIPATED IN THE SORTS OF THINGS YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

I WOULD WANT TO ADD VERY QUICKLY TOO.

AT A TIME WHEN THE DISEASE WAS NOT UNDERSTOOD AS WELL.

IN MOST CASES, THEY WERE ACTUALLY FOLLOWING THE BEST MEDICAL AND PSYCHOLOGICAL ADVICE AVAILABLE.

BUT THROUGH OUR PERSPECTIVE TODAY, IT'S AN ENORMOUS PROBLEM.

A NUMBER OF PEOPLE AND AN ENORMOUS NUMBER OF PEOPLE WERE HURT, HURT PERMANENTLY BY THIS.

SO IT WILL BE AN INJURY.

IT IS A THING TO BE WORRIED ABOUT BECAUSE IT COULD INJURE.

WHETHER IT COULD BE DISQUALIFYING, I DON'T KNOW, BUT IT CERTAINLY WOULD BE AN ENORMOUS PROBLEM FOR THAT TO BE THE CASE AND FOR THE CHURCH AND THE WORLD TO BECOME PREOCCUPIED BY IT.

>> AND WE SEE THE CATHOLIC CHURCH GROWING ENORMOUS PLACES, WHICH HASN'T USUALLY HAD A REPRESENTATION AS POPE.

I MEAN, WHETHER IT IS LATIN AMERICA, AFRICA, ASIA.

WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT WHO MIGHT BE THE NEXT ONE, DO YOU HAVE ANY SORT OF FAVORITES IN THAT REGARD?

>> I DO.

I THINK WHAT IS REMARKABLE ABOUT THIS GROUPING OF CARDINAL ELECTORS, IT'S THE MOST DIVERSE GROUP OF CARDINAL ELECTORS THAT THE CHURCH HAS EVER SEEN, ALSO I THINK THE LARGEST.

TO APPOINT SISTER NATALIE WAS MAKING BEFORE, COMING FROM MANY DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE WORLD THAT ARE MUCH MORE VULNERABLE TO CLIMATE CHANGE IS A CONSIDERATION THAT'S GOING TO BE IN THE ROOM THERE, AS WELL AS I THINK WE HAVE TO BEAR IN MIND, THE CARDINALS ALWAYS BRING A WORLD WITH THEM.

WE'RE WATCHING VIOLENCE BETWEEN U INDIA AND PAKISTAN TODAY.

WE KNOW WHAT'S BEEN HAPPENING WITH THE RISING AUTHORITARIANISM AROUND THE WORLD.

ALL THOSE GLOBAL EVENTS ENTER THE CONCLAVE WITH THE CARDINALS.

THEY'LL BE THINKING ABOUT THOSE THINGS.

>> NATALIE, VERY QUICKLY, SISTER NATALIE.

THE SECRECY IS AN ACRONYMISM.

IT'S SO 1200s.

DO YOU THINK THE WAY THIS IS CONDUCTED IS FOR THE AGES?

>> THE CHURCH IS BOTH THE DIVINE MYSTERY, BEING CENTRIC.

BUT MANY STATES ARE EVOLVED.

SO WE CAN'T SAY IT IS FOR A DIFFERENT WAY.

BUT WHAT'S VERY IMPORTANT, AND WHAT THEY'RE EXPERIENCING NOW IN THE CONCLAVE.

YOU KNOW, IT'S TO GAVE US SPACE OF SILENCE, SO EVERYONE CAN REALLY CHOOSE AND ELECT SOMEONE COMING FROM, WHICH IS BEING AWARE OF THE CONSCIENCENESS AND TO CHOOSE SOMEONE.

>> OKAY.

>> AND THE PROCESS OF THIS TOURNAMENT.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH, SISTER NATALIE, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

NEXT, HIGHER PRICES, EMPTY SHELVES, AND ORDERS DELAYED.

THIS MAY SOON BECOME THE REALITY FOR AMERICAN CONSUMERS, FAR FROM THE GOLDEN AGE OF PROSPERITY THAT TRUMP ONCE PROMISED.

NOW HE'S WARNING PEOPLE MAY HAVE TO CUT BACK AFTER HIS TARIFFS BROUGHT MOST TRADE WITH CHINA TO A HOLD.

WELL, THIS WEEK THE U. S. AND CHINA WILL FINALLY HOLD TALKS.

BUT ANNA SWANSON JOINS HARI SREENIVASAN TO EXPLAIN MUCH OF THE DAMAGE HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE.

>> Reporter: CHRISTIANE, THANKS.

ANNA JOHNSON, THANKS FOR JOINING US.

YOU WROTE A PIECE TITLED "A TIDAL WAVE OF CHANGE" IS HEADED FOR THE U.S. ECONOMY, WHICH TAKES A LOOK AT THE DRASTIC CHANGES THAT CONSUMERS MIGHT FEEL IN THEIR HOMES AND OTHER PLACES.

BUT YOU SAY RIGHT NOW, WE ACTUALLY HAVEN'T STARTED TO FEEL THE FULL BRUNT OF THE IMPACT OF THE U.S. TARIFFS ON CHINA YET.

EXPLAIN THAT.

>> ABSOLUTELY, TARIFFS HAVE BEEN IN THE NEWS FOR A WHILE.

BUT THESE CHANGES FOR THE ECONOMY WILL REALLY TAKE QUITE A LOT OF TIME TO UNFOLD.

AND IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, IT IS REALLY BECAUSE IT TAKES SO LONG FOR GOODS TO BE SHIPPED FROM CHINA TO THE UNITED STATES.

TYPICALLY A LOT OF GOODS THAT YOU'RE BUYING ARE MOVING ON CONTAINER SHIPS.

WHEN THEY LEAVE THE PORT IN CHINA, IT CAN TAKE 20 TO 40 DAYS TO SHOW UP AT U.S.

PORTS.

AND THEN IT MIGHT TAKE, YOU KNOW, ANOTHER ONE TO TEN DAYS TO BE SENT BY TRUCK OR TRAIN AROUND THE COUNTRY.

SO FROM THE TIME THE PRESIDENT PUT IN VERY EXTREME TARIFFS ON CHINA AT THE BEGINNING OF APRIL, YOU'RE LOOKING AT TWO MONTHS, TWO TIMELINES BEFORE YOU START TO FEEL THE AFFECTS.

SO IT IS STARTING NOW, WHERE YOU'RE SEEING THE LEVEL OF GOODS THAT'S COMING IN THROUGH THE CONTAINERSHIP IS DROPPING.

THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WILL KEEP INTENSIFYING OVER THE COMING WEEKS AND MONTHS.

WITH CONSUMERS REALLY STARTING TO FEEL THE AFFECTS, I THINK, GOING INTO THE SUMMER.

>> SO I'M ASSUMING AS SOON AS THE TARIFFS HAPPEN, IF THERE IS A SMALL BUSINESS IN THE UNITED STATES THAT WAS IMPORTING THINGS FROM CHINA, AND THEY COULDN'T EITHER AFFORD TO OR THEY DIDN'T REALLY WANT TO PASS ON THE 140% PRICE INCREASE TO THEIR CONSUMERS.

THEY JUST STOPPED ORDERING, RIGHT?

>> YEAH, IT IS MEASURABLE.

WE HAD SOME NEW TRADE DATA COMING OUT THIS WEEK AS WELL.

WE SHOWED THE TARIFF IMPORTS FROM CHINA, WHERE WE ARE AT A HISTORICAL LOW.

SO DEFINITELY THOSE TARIFFS HAD LED TO A PRETTY SHARP DROP IN TRADE, ESPECIALLY AS YOU'RE POINTING OUT FOR SMALL BUSINESSES, WHICH MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO PAY THAT PRICE, WHICH HAS MORE THAN DOUBLED THE PRICE OF BRINGING IN GOODS FROM CHINA.

I WOULD ADD THOUGH, IT IS REAL IMPORTANT THAT A LOT OF BUSINESSES, PARTICULARLY MAJOR RETAILERS, DID A LOT OF STOCKING UP SINCE THE ELECTION AND EARLIER THIS YEAR.

SO A LOT OF BIG RETAILERS DO HAVE, YOU KNOW, A MONTH, A COUPLE OF MONTHS OF INVENTORY ON HAND.

NOW THAT HAS ALSO HELPED SOFTEN THE BLOW.

BUT YOU KNOW, AS TIME GOES ON, AND THESE TARIFFS ON CHINA REMAIN REALLY HIGH, YOU ARE GOING TO SEE THAT INTERRUPTION IN TRADE AND RETAILERS CAN'T COVER THAT PAUSE, YOU KNOW, FOREVER.

EVENTUALLY CONSUMERS WILL START TO SEE THAT IN THE FORM OF HIGHER PRICES, SOME EMPTY SHELVES, MAYBE LONGER WAIT TIMES OR WHEN THEY'RE ORDERING PRODUCTS OR THE INABILITY TO ORDER CERTAIN PRODUCTS AT ALL.

>> AND JUST TO KEEP IN PERSPECTIVE FOR OUR AUDIENCE.

ARE WE THE BIGGEST CUSTOMER OF CHINA?

>> YEAH, IT'S A REAL INTERESTING QUESTION.

SO THE UNITED STATES IS CERTAINLY A MAJOR EXPORT MARKET FOR CHINA.

BUT IT IS DEFINITELY NOT THE ONLY ONE.

SO CHINA'S RELIANCE ON THE UNITED STATES HAS FALLEN IN RECENT YEARS.

USED TO BE, YOU KNOW, MORE THAN A FIFTH OF CHINESE PRODUCTS THAT WERE HEADED TO THE UNITED STATES SOME YEARS AGO.

NOW I BELIEVE IT'S MORE LIKE 15%, MAYBE A LITTLE BIT LOWER THAN THAT.

SO MOST CHINESE GOODS ACTUALLY ARE NOT HEADED INTO THE UNITED STATES.

THERE CERTAINLY IS A MAJOR EXPORT MARKET, A VERY IMPORTANT MARKET FOR A LOT OF CHINESE COMPANIES.

BUT CHINA, YOU KNOW, THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN SORT OF STANDING UP TO THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IN TRYING TO MAKE THE POINT, YOU KNOW, JUST BECAUSE OF SHERIFFS, WE WON'T NECESSARILY FALL TO YOUR DEMANDS OR COME RUNNING TO NEGOTIATE.

A PART OF THAT IS BECAUSE THE COUNTRY IS MORE DIVERSIFIED NOW AND HAS MORE EXPORT MARKETS THAT THEY CAN FALL INTO.

>> OKAY, LET'S LOOK AT THE OTHER SIDE OF THE EQUATION.

IF CHINA IS EXPORTING A SMALLER PERCENTAGE OF WHAT THEY MAKE TO US, ARE WE ALSO IMPORTING FROM LOTS OF OTHER COUNTRIES?

>> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

SO SINCE THE FIRST TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, SINCE PRESIDENT TRUMP PUT VERY HIGH TARIFFS IN ON CHINA AND HIS FIRST TERM.

U.S. IMPORTS FROM CHINA HAS DROPPED AS A SHARE OF THE OVERALL IMPORTS?

SO THE UNITED STATES, THEY REPORT A BIGGER SHARE OF ITS GOODS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES LIKE MEXICO, VIETNAM, COUNTRIES IN SOUTHEAST ASIA.

SO YOU REALLY DID SEE THIS AFFECT WHEN TERRORISTS WENT IN PLACE THAT THE UNITED STATES STARTED TO BUY MORE FROM OTHER COUNTRIES RATHER THAN CHINA.

NOW IN SOME CASES, IT WAS VERY INTERESTING.

THAT IS ACTUALLY JUST CHINESE COMPANIES MOVING TEN OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD, OR SENDING THEIR PARTS TO OTHER COUNTRIES IN OTHER PLACES IN THE WORLD.

SO THERE IS STILL A LOT OF CHINESE RAW MATERIAL AND PARTS THAT ARE BEING IMPORTED TO THE UNITED STATES.

BUT IT DID REARRANGE TRADE.

IT MADE THE U.S. TRADE DEFICIT WITH OTHER COUNTRIES LIKE MEXICO, LIKE VIETNAM SHOOT UP.

AND IN THIS TERM, THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS KIND OF FOCUSING THEIR SIGHTS ON THOSE COUNTRIES TOO.

THERE IS A BIT OF A WHACK-A- MOLE AFFECT WITH GLOBAL TRADE, WHERE YOU PUSH DOWN ON A PART OF THE BALLOON WITH CHINA, THE TRADE DEFICIT, JUST POPS UP IN OTHER COUNTRIES GLOBALLY.

>> YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE THIS GRAPHIC, WHICH JUST KIND OF LOOKS AT THE IMPACT OF CHINESE GOODS AND AVERAGE AMERICAN HOUSEHOLDS.

WALK US THROUGH WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO ILLUSTRATE BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE SOME HOUSEHOLD GOODS ARE ONLY CHINA WHERE WE ARE GETTING THESE ITEMS FROM.

>> ABSOLUTELY, YEAH, IT'S REALLY REMARKABLE.

OUR COLLEAGUES IN GRAPHICS PUT TOGETHER A VISUAL REPRESENTATION OF YOUR HOUSE.

YOU CAN WALK THROUGH THE HOUSE AND SEE, YOU KNOW, WHICH PRODUCTS MOSTLY COME FROM CHINA OR MOSTLY COME FROM OTHER PLACES.

AND THE IDEA BEHIND IT IS YES, YOU GUYS ASK U.S.

HOUSEHOLDS, A LOT MORE THAN YOU MIGHT THINK.

BUT IN SOME PRODUCT CATEGORIES, CHINA PRODUCES NEARLY ALL OF THE WORLD SUPPLY.

SO FOR THINGS LIKE ALARM CLOCKS, TOASTERS, BABY STROLLERS, GRILLS, FIREWORKS.

IT'S MORE THAN 90% OF GLOBAL PRODUCTS THAT CHINA IS PRODUCING.

SO THE POINT IS IF WE'RE PUTTING 145% TARIFFS ON CHINA, WE'RE STOPPING TRADE WITH CHINA.

RIGHT NOW THE WORLD DOESN'T HAVE MANY ALTERNATIVES.

FOR SOME OTHER CATEGORIES, YOU KNOW, THAT YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO SWITCH FROM BUYING THEM FROM MEXICO OR THE UNITED STATES OR BUYING THEM FROM ELSEWHERE.

BUT CHINA IS JUST SUCH A DOMINANT MANUFACTURING POWER HOUSE THAT IT HAS REALLY TAKEN OVER GLOBAL SUPPLY OF SOME OF THESE GOODS, AND THERE IS JUST NOWHERE ELSE TO BUY, YOU KNOW, YOUR ALARM CLOCK.

AND SO FOR THOSE TYPES OF GOODS, CONSUMERS ARE MORE LIKELY TO SEE PRICE AGREEMENTS.

>> THIS PAST FRIDAY, THE EXCEPTION FOR LOW VALUE PACKAGES EXPIRED MEANING ANYTHING UNDER $800 WAS EXEMPTED FROM TARIFFS.

KIND OF EXPLAIN WHAT THIS MEANS FOR BOTH AMERICANS AND FOR THE CHINESE.

>> SO THE EXCEPTION HAD ALLOWED RETAILERS TO SEND THINGS INTO THE UNITED STATES WITHOUT PAYING TARIFFS, AS LONG AS THEY WERE VALUED AT LESS THAN $800.

AND AS LONG AS THEY WERE SENT DIRECTLY TO THE CONSUMER OR TO THE BUSINESS.

SO YOU HAD A LOT OF INDIVIDUAL PACKAGES THAT WOULD COME TO BUSINESSES FROM CHINA AND THOSE WEREN'T BEING CHARGED THE TARIFFS IN PRESIDENT TRUMP'S FIRST TERM.

WHEN YOU PUT THOSE TARIFFS ON, WE DID SEE A DRAMATIC INCREASE IT IN SHIPPING, AS E-COMMERCE PLATFORMS GOT MORE POPULAR.

SO SHEIN, TEMU, YOU KNOW, THESE PLATFORMS THAT ALLOW AMERICANS TO BUY GOODS DIRECTLY.

SO A LOT OF U.S. MANUFACTURERS COMPLAINED THIS IS JUST VERY UNFAIR BECAUSE IT WAS A WAY FOR CHINESE GOODS TO BYPASS U.S. TARIFFS.

OTHER RETAILERS BRINGING THINGS IN WOULD HAVE TO PAY THAT TARIFF.

BUT SHEIN AND TEMU WITH RESPECT, SO THEY KIND OF UPSET THE PLAYING FIELD.

SO THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION ON FRIDAY DECIDED TO PUT AN END TO THAT.

AND SO THAT MEANS, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU BRING THOSE GOODS INTO THE UNITED STATES RIGHT NOW, YOU NEED TO PAY 145% TARIFF.

IT'S A VERY DRAMATIC INCREASE ON THE COST OF A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, CHEAP CLOTHING OR EVERYDAY ITEMS THAT YOU MIGHT BE IMPORTING.

SO IT IS GOING TO BE AN ISSUE FOR THOSE PLATFORMS.

THEY'RE CERTAINLY GOING TO HAVE TO RESHUFFLE.

WE MAY SEE THE BUSINESS MODELS CHANGE OR SHRINK FRANKLY IN THE TIME TO COME.

>> THERE ALREADY HAVE BEEN EXEMPTIONS GRANTED FOR CERTAIN CATEGORIES OF GOODS THAT WE MIGHT BE IMPORTING OR OTHER THINGS.

ARE THESE LOOPHOLES WHERE WE ARE NOT GOING TO FEEL THAT?

>> SO THEY STARTED EARLIER THIS YEAR BY SAYING THERE WOULD BE NO EXCEPTION OR EXCLUSIONS TO THESE PRESSURES.

BUT AS TIME HAS GONE ON, WE'VE SEEN SOME MAJOR CARVEOUTS FOR INDUSTRIES.

THE MOST NOTICEABLE ONE WAS LAST MONTH, WHEN THE PRESIDENT DECIDED TO EXEMPT ELECTRONICS FROM CHINA.

YOUR iPHONE, YOUR CELLPHONE, YOUR iPAD ARE NOT SUBJECT TO THOSE CRAZY HIGH CHINA TARIFFS CURRENTLY.

HE SAYS THEY MIGHT BE HIT WITH ANOTHER TARIFF INVESTIGATION IN THE FUTURE, BUT THOSE TARIFFS ARE LIKELY TO BE A LOT LOWER.

SO THAT WAS A VERY SIGNIFICANT SOURCE OF RELIEF FOR THE ELECTRONICS INDUSTRY.

AND SOMETHING THAT SEEMS TO HAPPEN AFTER THE CEO OF APPLE PUT IN A FEW STRATEGIC CALLS TO THE ADMINISTRATION IN THE WHITE HOUSE.

THERE WAS ALSO AN EXEMPTION FOR SOME AUTOMAKERS, ALTHOUGH THAT IS MORE MINOR, CARVING OUT TARIFFS ON SOME PARTS.

BUT THAT ALSO FOLLOWED CALLS.

SO IT IS REALLY THE WELL CONNECTED COMPANIES THAT ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO GET AROUND THESE TARIFFS WHERE THEY ARE WORTH BILLIONS OF DOLLARS FOR COMPANIES.

THE SMARTEST THING YOU CAN DO IS DEPLOY, YOU KNOW, YOUR CHIEF EXECUTIVE OR YOUR LOBBYIST TO WASHINGTON RIGHT NOW TO TRY TO GET AROUND THOSE TARIFFS.

BUT IT DOES, YOU KNOW, IT DOES RAISE THE QUESTION OF WHY NOT SYRINGES?

WHY NOT BABY STROLLERS, YOU KNOW.

WHAT'S THE LOGIC BEHIND ACCEPTING SOME PRODUCTS AND NOT OTHERS.

THE ADMINISTRATION HAS NOT BEEN CLEAR ABOUT THAT.

>> WE'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT MIGHT SEEM LIKE SMALLER OBJECTIONS WHETHER IT IS TOYS OR ALARM CHOCKS.

ARE THERE ANY OTHER KIND OF GOODS THAT HAVE IMPACTED THE NATIONAL SECURITY PIPELINE THAT WE SHOULD BE THINKING ABOUT?

>> THE NATIONAL SECURITY PIPELINE.

WE'VE HEARD A LOT FROM MAKERS OF AIRPORTS AND AMMUNITIONS THAT THEY ARE AFFECTED ON TARIFFS OF STEEL AND ALUMINUM AND PARTS.

SO YOU KNOW, THAT PARTICULARLY RAISES THE COST OF BUILDING SOMETHING LIKE AN AIRPORT IF YOU HAVE TO PAY 25% MORE FOR YOUR IMPORTED MATERIALS.

I ALSO THINK THE AFFECTS ON AUTOMOBILES ARE IN EFFECT FOR CONSUMERS.

IT'S THE SINGLE BIGGEST PURCHASE THAT MOST AMERICAN HOUSEHOLDS WILL MAKE IN ANY GIVEN YEAR.

AND SO WE IS DO HAVE 25% TARIFFS ON IMPORTED CARS RIGHT NOW.

WE HAVE 25% TARIFFS ON MOST PARTS.

A LOT OF AUTOMAKERS ARE DEPENDING ON FOREIGN PARTS.

AND AT SOME POINT, THOSE PRICE INCREASES ARE GOING TO CASCADE THROUGH THE SUPPLY CHAIN.

SOME AUTOMAKERS ARE CHOOSING TO HOLD OFF ON PRICE INCREASES.

OTHERS ARE CHOOSING TO GO AHEAD.

BUT THAT WILL BE FELT.

>> WITH THE ECONOMIST THAT YOU SPEAK WITH AND THE DATA YOU LOOK AT.

HOW WILL WE JUDGE WHETHER OR NOT EITHER SIDE REALLY WON THIS TRADE WAR?

>> YEAH, YEAH, IT'S A VERY TRICKY QUESTION BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, REALLY THE U.S. AND CHINESE ECONOMIES IS BECAUSE OF THESE DECADES OF TRADE ARE FAIRLY LINKED TOGETHER, RIGHT?

OUR FORTUNES ARE KIND OF LINKED TOGETHER.

SO SEVERING THOSE CONNECTIONS IS GOING TO BE PAINFUL FOR BOTH SIDES.

I THINK FROM THE ADMINISTRATION, THE QUESTION IS WHO WILL BE HURT LESS?

WHO CAN WITHSTAND THE PAIN MORE.

AND THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAS ARGUED CHINA IS MORE VULNERABLE TO THE UNITED STATES BECAUSE WE ARE A MAJOR MARKET.

IT DEPENDS ON THE UNITED STATES FOR JOBS.

AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK THEY MADE IT THIS CALCULATION THAT CHINESE OFFICIALS WOULD NEGOTIATE MORE QUICKLY THAN THEY HAVE.

BUT YOU KNOW, THE UNITED STATES IS ALSO VULNERABLE.

WE, UNLIKE CHINA, OUR DEMOCRACIES.

SO WHEN CONSUMERS SEE PRICES RISE, WHEN THEY START TO SEE SHORTAGES.

THEY CAN SPEAK UP VERY VOCALLY ABOUT THAT AND EXPRESS OPINIONS IN THE MIDTERMS, YOU KNOW.

THAT'S SOMETHING REPUBLICANS ARE STARTING TO GET CONCERNED ABOUT.

AND SO I THINK BOTH COUNTRIES ARE SORT OF VULNERABLE IN DIFFERENT WAYS, AND POLITICALLY TO SOME EXTENT.

>> ONE OF THE KEY THINGS IS THE IDEA THAT THIS WOULD BRING JOBS BACK TO THE UNITED STATES.

HOW DO WE MEASURE WHETHER THAT'S HAPPENING, HOW QUICKLY THAT WILL HAPPEN, AND WHAT THE IMPACTS OF THESE TARIFFS ARE IN TRYING TO ACCELERATE THAT.

>> YEAH, SO I DO THINK TARIFFS DO WORK IN SOME INSTANCES, RIGHT?

TARIFFS ARE DESIGNED TO RAISE THE PRICE OF IMPORTS.

THAT MAKES AMERICAN CONSUMERS MORE LIKELY TO BUY DOMESTIC GOODS, RIGHT?

AND THERE ARE VERY REAL CONCERNS THAT CHINESE MANUFACTURERS BECAUSE OF SUPPORT FROM THE GOVERNMENT OR BECAUSE OF OTHER FAIR TRADE PRACTICES.

THEY'RE ABLE TO PRICE THEIR GOODS SO CHEAPLY THAT AMERICAN MANUFACTURERS JUST CAN'T COMPETE ANYMORE.

AND THEN ALSO WITH TARIFFS, YOU DO HAVE OTHER ISSUES.

SO THERE ARE A LOT OF COMPANIES THAT NEED TO IMPORT RAW MATERIALS AND PARTS.

SO TARIFFS MEAN THEY'RE PAYING THE HIGHER PRICE FOR THAT.

THAT COULD MAKE U.S. MANUFACTURING LESS COMPETITIVE.

SO IT IS NOT QUITE AS SIMPLE OF AN EQUATION AS YOU MIGHT THINK.

AND THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION OBVIOUSLY HAS BEEN EMPHASIZING THAT THEY ARE COMPANIES THAT ARE MAKING BIG INVESTMENTS IN THE UNITED STATES.

BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE DATA, IT LOOKS LIKE CAPITAL EXPENDITURES BY COMPANIES HAS REALLY FALLEN OFF VERY SHARPLY BECAUSE OF UNCERTAINTY DUE TO THE TARIFFS.

SO YOU KNOW, ACTUALLY IT SEEMS LIKE COMPANIES RIGHT NOW ARE NOT BEING ENCOURAGED TO INVEST.

THEY'RE REALLY JUST HOLDING OFF TO SEE HOW THIS TARIFF POLICY MIGHT PAN OUT AND WHAT'S GOING TO BE BEST FOR THEM IN THE FUTURE.

>> SO CONSIDERING THE TARIFFS NOW, NOT JUST IMPACT CHINA, BUT REALLY EVERY MAJOR COUNTRY ON THE PLANET.

AND THERE ARE ESSENTIALLY STILL A DELAY.

THEY CAN BE REIMPOSED.

WHAT IS LIKELY TO HAPPEN IN THIS 90-DAY WINDOW?

>> THERE ARE SO MANY TARIFFS OUT THERE RIGHT NOW.

THE PRESIDENT ANNOUNCED REALLY MAJOR GLOBAL TARIFFS ON MOST COUNTRIES AT THE BEGINNING OF APRIL.

AND THEN FOR DOZENS OF THEM, HE THEN PAUSED THEM FOR A PERIOD OF 90 DAYS TO MAKE TRADE DEALS.

SO NOW THAT SETS UP THE DEADLINE OF EARLY JULY, WHERE THESE COUNTRIES ARE RACING TO TRY TO MAKE SOME DEAL WITH THE UNITED STATES, TO FORCE ALL THOSE TARIFFS FROM COMING BACK INTO EFFECT.

AND THERE ARE, YOU KNOW, COUNTRIES THAT ARE COMING TO THE U.S., MAKING OFFERS, U.S. TRADE NEGOTIATORS ARE QUITE BUSY RIGHT NOW.

I THINK THE PROBLEM IS IT'S A VERY SHORT TIMELINE TO DO SOMETHING THAT'S, YOU KNOW, VERY AMBITIOUS.

TYPICALLY A NORMAL TRADE DEAL WOULD TAKE, YOU KNOW, OVER A YEAR TO NEGOTIATE AND A YEAR THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS TRYING TO DO DEALS WITH THE ENTIRE WORLD IN THE SPAN OF JUST A FEW MONTHS.

SO THAT'S ALREADY VERY DIFFICULT.

AGAIN, IT JUST CREATES A LOT OF UNCERTAINTY ABOUT WHETHER TARIFFS WILL BE GOING UP OR DOWN IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF MONTHS.

>> ANNA SWANSON A REPORTER WITH THE NEW YORK TIMES.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

>> THAT'S IT FOR US.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

GOODBYE FROM LONDON.