GEOFF BENNETT: The president of the# University of Virginia is resigning## following a pressure campaign by the# Trump administration, marking what## appears to be the first time the White House# has successfully forced out a university leader.

James Ryan announced his departure today# amid a Justice Department investigation## into UVA's diversity, equity, and# inclusion efforts.

In a statement,## Ryan said he could not fight for his# job in good conscience since that would## knowingly and willingly risk federal funding,# student aid, and jobs for the university.

For a closer look at the impact and President# Trump's broader battle with higher education,## we're joined by Peter McDonough,# vice president of the American## Council on Education.

The group represents# nearly 1,600 colleges and universities.

Thank you for joining us.

PETER MCDONOUGH, Vice President and General# Counsel, American Council on Education: Thank you.

GEOFF BENNETT: It appears James Ry.. Trump administration and a DOJ investigation# into UVA's DEI policy.

So what does this say## to you about the Trump administration's# influence over university governance?

PETER MCDONOUGH: Well, first and foremost,# I think we all can agree that universities## should be receptive to thoughtful criticism.

And# they should be accountable when they fall short.

But Congress has mandated certain types of# processes.

We tend to call them due process that## we're supposed to be imagining everybody follows.# But in terms of control over a university by the## executive branch of the federal government# and using the purse strings that Congress is## essentially holding in terms of federal funding,# there are specific rules or specific requirements## or specific types of due process that is supposed# to be respected and utilized when there is a## question about whether a college or a university,# public or private, has complied with federal law.

There's nothing in our -- the federal# system of government that enables the## executive branch to micromanage all aspects of# a university.

And there's certainly nothing that## enables it to force out a leader of a# college or university, public or private.

GEOFF BENNETT: Does Mr. Ryan's resignation,## does this represent a tipping# point in higher ed autonomy?

PETER MCDONOUGH: Well, I hope it doesn't.# But we should all be concerned that it may.

I wouldn't have seen this coming.

but,# frankly, I should have and maybe more of## us should have.

Back in 2021, the vice president,# appearing at a National Conservatism Conference,## said we have to honestly and aggressively# attack the universities in this country.## He said it in a speech titled,# "The Universities Are the Enemy."

That should worry us all.

That should worry# us on all ends of the political spectrum.

It## should worry us whether we are in statehouses# or state legislatures, whether we are on the## boards of public universities or whether we# are on the boards or in leadership positions## of private colleges and universities, because we# don't have a federal system of higher education.

We have a mosaic that's made up of# publics and privates, small and large,## religious-based and not.

And I think we# can all agree that, over the decades,## this mosaic of higher education has really,# truly been the envy of the world.

It's why## people come here to go to college.

And it's# produced the economic vitality that we have## experienced here.

It's enabled us to have a# level of national security and health benefits.

It allowed us to address some of the largest# problems in medicine with a power that, frankly,## starts in most instances in the research labs on# our college campuses.

And all of this is at risk.

GEOFF BENNETT: There are those who# argue that James Ryan's resignation## was necessary because UVA didn't fully comply# with efforts to dismantle its DEI programs.

Our team spoke with Ilya Shapiro with the# Manhattan Institute, and he makes that point.

ILYA SHAPIRO, Manhattan Institute: The school# pledged to dismantle its DEI structures and## programs, and there's some doubt about whether# they did that.

So the Justice Department was## investigating and wanted to make sure that people# weren't being treated differently based on race## and ethnic background and all these other issues# that this school, among others, had been having.

So it told them what needed to# be done.

And one of those things,## I think, because President Ryan was# deeply involved in DEI programming,## including in his previous job at Harvard,# that having new leadership made sense.

GEOFF BENNETT: So do you believe the# university was being transparent,## or was this more a matter of rebranding,# rather than real reform on its part?

PETER MCDONOUGH: Well, let's start with the# realization, which I believe is accurate, that## there has been no outcome to any investigation# of the University of Virginia at this stage.

The clip that you played sound as if there# had been a verdict without a trial.

If they## have a branding of DEI or a branding# of inclusion or a branding of equity or## even -- a branding of equity, that doesn't make# them illegal.

And it certainly shouldn't make## it a mandate that the president# of one of the major research## universities in this country, one of# the major universities in this country,## part of that mosaic, must step down before# there is a conclusion of an investigation.

GEOFF BENNETT: Peter McDonough with the American# Council on Education, thank you for joining us.

PETER MCDONOUGH: Thank you.